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I was speaking to a fellow karter today and the discussion of lead on Karts came up. Unfortunately for this karter they have to run 40KG of lead on their Kart to make minimum weight, and they are a senior!
So at what point does putting lead on your kart become too much? Surely this becomes a safety issue. What can be done so that someone who doesn't carry the same mass as other seniors doesn't have to make their Kart so heavy that they can't even lift it?
Changing class weights has been discussed on here before but this is not really the right answer. For simple club events do the rules need to be more flexible so that you can run lighter but have a handicap system in place like speedway bikes do or used to (it's been a while since I saw them race).
Anyone got any better ideas?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cox on -
You know weights will always be a contentious issue.
What about the guys that are 20kg too heavy for classes. Sure the karts are light but the net effect is that they might as well go & play in a different sand pit as they can't get down to the same lap times as the light guys or the guys that are right on the limit.
Even F1 last weekend they commented that 10kg of fuel was costing them 0.4 of a second a lap - its worse when you have the low horsepower of karts.
If you are suggesting a handicap system for light guys then the same sort of idea has to be there for the heavy guys or it just won't fly.
Unfortunately our sport does not cater for the guys at the light or heavy ends of the spectrum.
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Permalink Reply by Andre Elliot on -
Agreed and this is one of those extreme cases. Handicap would be over the whole field/s affected and people would decide if they wnated to run lighter and accept a time penalty or starting position penalty. It works in car racing.....
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Permalink Reply by Aarron Cunningham on -
So half lap head starts etc? Kind of contraindicative of one of the main drawing points of karting, i.e close racing. Unfortunately we must cater for the majority. A 60 kilogram person only needs 20kg on an 85kg kart to get them to Rotax light weight. Judging by your statement, the adult weighed 40kg and we just cant make rules for the very few 40kg (or in existence) adults in our sport. Cater for the 65 - 95kg demographic as this is where the population sits.
To put your statement in perspective, you may have well as introduced a rule to Basketball that means short people have lower hoops.
Harden up and compete to your best. If anyone wants it bad enough they will find a way to overcome their physical limitations.
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Permalink Reply by Andre Elliot on
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Isn't our sport also about being fair?
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Permalink Reply by Aarron Cunningham on
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No, our sport is about competition and all this shit about making the sport 'fair' by changing the rules to suit minorities is PC bullshit. It Waters down the spirit of competition, which is in essence the pursuit of excellence. We have classes for people that do not have what it takes to race our 2 premier classes (Rotax Heavy and Yamaha Heavy) such as Racket 120 or Clubclass. There is a place for everyone in this sport, but that place is not the top.
You don't have what it takes to play first grade Rugby league do they change the rules for you? Perhaps we can call Ivan Cleary, get the game softened up a bit and me and you can start for the Warriors next Sunday?
Don't think so Tim.
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Permalink Reply by Aarron Cunningham on
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I am aware our premier classes are probably KZ2 and Rotax Light. Probably.
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Permalink Reply by Tracey Nielsen on -
stop picking on the raket class. it is not an inferrior class. every class of karting is important and to make out that if you race in a certain class you dont take your karting seriously, is the most silly thing i have heard. i take my karting seriously, i spend the same amount of time a kt does, cleaning my kart, preparing my kart, driving to the track. i pay the same fees as everyone else. i just choose to race in the club sport class as it fits my budget.
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Permalink Reply by Steven Gaskell on -
40kg is dangerous rather than excessive, regardless whether you're interested in fair racing or competition. However, I also spent time rolling around over 20kg over the weight limit and you know you will never win on outright pace alone. Weights have to, and can only accomodate the majority. I presumed Rotax Light weight in NZ was relatively high for this reason - I think the UK ran at 158, now 162 (v 165).and the heavy class is 177 (v 185).
It's also very harsh Aaron to say that non-premier class racers are there because 'they do not have what it takes'. The top of the premier classes is very good, but the depth isn't that much that someone who races an 'inferior' class is unable to get stuck into the Max Challenge. When I first started, I thought RMC was a pipedream, would just be a happy go lucky club racer for the majority. However, meeting the Right people, making the right decisions and a few sacrifices and I'll be having a pop next year and expect to be mid-grid forward. And I'm no past, present or future great driver - I've barely raced in the last 10 years, and when I raced as a youngster I did less than 30 meetings.
In my experience, the 'fairest' racing has always brought on the most competitive racing. Why? Because if you're not quickest you have to suck it up and point at yourself as the reason why.
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Permalink Reply by Andre Elliot on
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Tracey, Rakets are great! Certainly not for also rans. Didn't they have the biggest field at the last Top Half round?
Have a think about this guys:
Rotax Light Weight is 165kg MAW. Lets say a Kart weighs 80-85kg. If an indivdual weighs 80kg then they have the perfect weight and no lead is required. Lets say someone weighs 50kg. They have to run with 30kg of lead. The 55kg person does not have the body mass of an 80kg person there for probably won't be as strong meaning that they are trying to drive a kart that weighs 115kg or so. Fatigue would more than likely set in earlier than other drivers because it takes more effort to drive the kart because of having less boy mass. Weight doesn't determine talent or skill.
And would I expect someone to be compensated at a National level? Not at all. We are talking club racing here. Does there need to be some sort of flexability for those that fall outside the so called "norm" so that they can also be competitive and have fun? I believe there's room for it in our sport at a club level. It's not all about the so called "Elite".
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Permalink Reply by Aarron Cunningham on
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Andre drop it, it is a flatout terrible idea. Put little people in a Yamaha or a Racket. We have enough rules (and classes) as it is without complicating things further or run open at 135kg and don't be a douche regarding Racket. You pissed me off with your quotation marks, don't try to be "ironic".
Oh and the "so called" elite, dusts you every time you put your kart on a track. That is what it means - being the best.
Many apologies Tracey and Steven, my words were chosen poorly. Classes such as 120 and Club should be the backbone (definitely not inferior to any other classes) of our sport and my intent wasn't to degrade the drivers or the classes. I was trying to point out that the pinnacle of any sport is not for everyone and their are many barriers to entry be it budget, desire, skill and the people who just want to turn up or race with their mates and have a beer at the end of the day shouldn't be left out as they are (other than the Junior Classes) what feed into the elite classes. I can fully understand that somebody who races Racket or Club can love karting and take it as seriously as another person who happens to race KF in Europe.
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Permalink Reply by Andre Elliot on
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Me get dusted evreytime I get on the track? I don't think so. And I'm not a Douche. Far from it actually. All I was looking for was ideas/thoughts etc. When you start putting people in to groups of them and us you start to discriminate. In no way would this effect an A rated Elite driver. This is for CLUB racing. It was just something brought to my attention. Thought it might be worth a discussion.....
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Permalink Reply by Alan Sherris on -
And keep your thread going Andre. It is a curly one because you will never satisfy everyone. There are many stories from Cadets thru the senior classes of how much lead is on a kart to make a class (of choice).
Leaving the junior classes aside (there will always be extremes at both end of the weight scale), most "adult" drivers can find a class that suits their body weight. May not be the class they want to race in but the selection is great enough for them to enjoy our sport. Try thinking of the poor sod who weights 90kg (not big in these modern times) who wants to race in Yamaha lights. The only way that will work is after some surgical procedure of two.
However if the thread stays alive, please leave the issue of "elite" out of it. There are no elite classes and there are certainly very few elite drivers. And in the main those that are will not be making comments on this thread.
There are 170 + driver at the Nationals right now. They are competing for 10 National titles. Of the 170 there are probably 30 - 35 who have a genuine chance of winning. Another 20 may achieve it if luck goes theres and no one elses way. Still leaves a lot of disappointed people. But they compete at that level of the sport because (a) they can afford to, (b) they want to and (c) it is a given that it is the one place that you can race against the best we have to offer regardless of which class you race in.
But do remember there are some 830 drivers that don't chose to race at that level. Some are more than capable of doing so and performing well, but many are in the sport for far different objectives.
So enough about "elite" - you will start to create little egos around the place that will start strutting.
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