Plastic Bumpers for Cadet

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Permalink Reply by Darryl Evans on October 10, 2011 at 12:48

Hi Aarron,

As a dad of two young cadet drivers, anything that is going to make it safer has to be looked at seriously.

Last Saturday afternoon was spent in an emergency room after oldest boy managed to flip.

The carts are sometimes 4 times heavier than the kids.

Providing that it actually makes them safer and doesnt turn them into stock cars.

As far as cost, if you can afford to cart, you can afford to keep your kids safe.

 

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Permalink Reply by Aarron Cunningham on October 10, 2011 at 13:14

I like your last point.

I remembered there was a lot of backlash when they were introduced in the UK along the lines of "they look shit", they don't work etc etc. So I went looking using the search functions on the karting1 website and found that the posts get more positive over time (2009 - current). The British have been using a steel bumper with additions that cover 50% of the rear wheel for many years and are at the forefront of Health and Safety advances.

Hope your driver is ok and ready to get back racing soon.

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Permalink Reply by Jim McIntosh on October 10, 2011 at 17:34

Just be careful of our wonderful regulations, I run one for my daughter in Rotax as there is nothing to her and she has had plenty of near hits with karts over the back and sides. I dont know about cadet ones but in senior karts they are wider than most wet setups so are not allowed to be run in the rain. This is crazy as that is arguably when they are most needed. I tried to put a remit through last year to get this changed but couldnt get it past our club commitee so gave up and just put the original bumper back on in the wet. I think they should be compulsary in all classes.

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Permalink Reply by Steven Gaskell on October 11, 2011 at 20:07

I think the second line is the key point Jim. With the narrow bumpers, a lot of rear contact too easily results in lift off - going through the exhaust / back of driver or being spat off over the side into the tyres. Granted though, this in itself is a major deterrent to deliberate contact... but misjudgements become much bigger than they ought to be.

 

In my opinion, the narrow bumper isn't really safe, but the big plastic bumpers could easily result in a bit of sly nudging and probably promote the rubbing side of racing, which isn't where we want to head in karting.

 

As Aaron said, the UK have been running the longer style circa 1300mm bumpers for as long as I can remember - when I was in junior TKM some 12 years ago we had them, and I thought they worked quite well. They aren't so narrow you can't run a wet setup, and you have to have a pretty good aim to engage lift off via wheel contact. They are also cheap as chips and easily repairable. When I started racing over here I was surprised at the narrow bumpers to be honest, to me the wider steel ones just seemed perfect.

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Permalink Reply by Carlos Hedge on October 15, 2011 at 0:01

I have been thinking about this myself for awhile now after seeing a couple cadet karts flip. All for it any thing that keeps these young kids safe is cheep. Let's face it it's a simple solution to a big problem. Safety first.......

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Permalink Reply by wayne bryant on October 16, 2011 at 8:33

I too have had my son go over end for end at Hamilton in a cadet, His was due to going over the side pod though not over the back of another kart, The other driver decided to turn in on him in the middle of a pass!

So in reallity the big back bumper wouldnt have helped in Dylans case, But im all for the rule in a safety aspect

Another thing i would like to see changed is neck braces in ALL junior classes, Alot of people laughed at us when we spent $2000 on a carbon fibre leatt brace for Dylan ( this was the only available brace at the time ) but this saved his neck when he landed on his head with the kart on top and as Darryl said but in Dylans case 3x his weight on him, You are now able to purchase these neck braces in a nylon form for less than half what we paid plus can also get the 360 and avs ones for around $400, To me you wouldnt think twice about about spending $5000 on a kart so whats another $1000 on safety gear, Its still a hell of alot cheaper than a wheelchair!!

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Permalink Reply by Ross Tait on October 16, 2011 at 10:11

The leatt braces are good and I personally brought one in a few years ago now as well and was told why spend that sort of money ! The Leatt is designed to do the job not like the rubber/foam boucncy supports that may not do the whole job  and alot come off while racing !

Sorry to get off the bumpers but what helps safety is a big one needs to be looked at and they look better as well !

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Permalink Reply by Greg Neaves on October 17, 2011 at 18:37

When the plastic style bumpers were introduced into CIK racing in 2006 they resulted in a lot of nudging off and became a target initially for a lot of pushing an dshoving until the CIK got very hard about it and handed out DQ's for any sort of nose to tail contact.

Several of the stewards were talking about these after looking at an unclothed kart in the pits (no side pods or nose cone on) at a recent meeting and the consensus was that in fact the nose cones and pods have actually created more contact than was present back in the days when you had no cones in front of your feet and no pods between the front and rear wheels. People simply drove a lot more carefully.

For race officials cadets are one of the most nerve wracking classes to watch simply because of the speed differentials between the fastest and slowest drivers combined with the relative inexperience and lack of awareness of the consequences of contact. Don't think your race officials are uncaring or oblivious to the potential of an altercation. They VERY aware of the potential for an accident.

Jim's club committee turned down the rule change proposal because effectively it meant that in the rain you could have run with a bumper several cm wider than the rear tyre to tyre width and hooked up others on your rear bumper when side by side. That would have created more problems than it solved. The plastic rear bumper may also have cut tyres and in the rain hooked up on the other karts tyre, initiaing a flip over instead of preventing it.

The idea of a wider rear bumper for cadets to cover probably up to track width (mid rear tyre across to the mid-width of the other rear tyre) would be an idea that might reduce the number of tyre climbing incidents from the rear but I would prefer the  tubular bumper to a plastic CIK style one. Its simpler and easier to repair.

But don't think it will be a panacea to incidents and injuries. It won't. In fact it may in turn create a style of racing that creates more incidents, not fewer.

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Permalink Reply by Jim McIntosh on October 19, 2011 at 8:30

The news this week is full of the tragic news that shows the worst of what can happen when open wheels touch at speed.No one is saying that this will solve everything, but if it stops just one person getting hurt then its worth considering in my opinion. A very wise man once said "If you change nothing then nothing will change"

That seems to be our sports current motto.

Is it just a coincidence that its the faster classes, KZ2 etc that seem to have picked up on the potential for accident as many of them choose to run with this style of rear bumper?

PS Just a point Greg, we are talking about 20mm per side of a rounded plastic bumper for the wet setup. I dont beleive this will cause any problems compared to the potential for saving injury 

Greg Neaves said:

When the plastic style bumpers were introduced into CIK racing in 2006 they resulted in a lot of nudging off and became a target initially for a lot of pushing an dshoving until the CIK got very hard about it and handed out DQ's for any sort of nose to tail contact.

Several of the stewards were talking about these after looking at an unclothed kart in the pits (no side pods or nose cone on) at a recent meeting and the consensus was that in fact the nose cones and pods have actually created more contact than was present back in the days when you had no cones in front of your feet and no pods between the front and rear wheels. People simply drove a lot more carefully.

For race officials cadets are one of the most nerve wracking classes to watch simply because of the speed differentials between the fastest and slowest drivers combined with the relative inexperience and lack of awareness of the consequences of contact. Don't think your race officials are uncaring or oblivious to the potential of an altercation. They VERY aware of the potential for an accident.

Jim's club committee turned down the rule change proposal because effectively it meant that in the rain you could have run with a bumper several cm wider than the rear tyre to tyre width and hooked up others on your rear bumper when side by side. That would have created more problems than it solved. The plastic rear bumper may also have cut tyres and in the rain hooked up on the other karts tyre, initiaing a flip over instead of preventing it.

The idea of a wider rear bumper for cadets to cover probably up to track width (mid rear tyre across to the mid-width of the other rear tyre) would be an idea that might reduce the number of tyre climbing incidents from the rear but I would prefer the  tubular bumper to a plastic CIK style one. Its simpler and easier to repair.

But don't think it will be a panacea to incidents and injuries. It won't. In fact it may in turn create a style of racing that creates more incidents, not fewer.

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Permalink Reply by Andrew Barber on December 27, 2011 at 20:12

i have to disagree with running full length rear bumpers, in saying that i havn't "flipped" as a result of tyre rubbing etc, mine was on the street race chicane. HA! but on subject could someone explain how a bumper lower to the ground will stop drivers getting run over? or tyres getting run over? 

back a number of years now, i had a novice run right over the top of me, not a pleasent experience, and our theory was it happened cause my rear bumper was sitting low, see my point?

just to add on the point someone made about neck braces, yes should be compulsory, i mean it may only have to do its job once, but it may be that once that saves you, i have had a few nasty hits over the last five years and so far walked away from all of them, and i would put money on that the neck brace prevented injuiry

maybe something that needs to be looked into

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